Your opinion on Gay rights

Alright, I know this is a touchy subject, but I was curious how it would turn out. What is your opinion? Do you think gays should be allowed to get married or no?

Just so this is clear, this is a debate, not a namecalling session. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. All rules still apply here.

No.

Why not?

Yeah, of course they should be able to marry.

I don't have anything against gay people or anything I don't not like them. I actually know a few gay people who are actually pretty cool. Though I'm fairly religious and it's just not right. Not how the world was made.

I am with 13ob here. I grew up being told there is liberty and justice for all, and that we live in a country based on freedom of religion. I respect your right to believe that gays shouldn't get married, but I don't feel you should be able to prevent me from getting married to a chick because your religion says I can't. My religion says I can. I am not actually gay, but I have many friends who are not able to marry the people they love because the people who's religion restricts their marriage are running the country.


And about your comment about how the world was made, if you google it, there have been gays found in quite a list of species.

Well that's strange.

I'm with Fearix on this. And animals are not gay. Animals "hump" (if you will forgive the term) each other to show dominance. It is not a sexual thing; it is merely to shame the other. Similar to when people are exceedingly rude and disrespectful to other people who they don't like.

I understand where everyone is coming from in this situation.

But, frankly, you can't really compare humans to any other animal. You can't say since dude giraffes only mate with girl giraffes, males should only marry females. Because humans are so much smarter. Animals don't have a sense of love. Humans do. And frankly, I don't think anything should go against love.

How about two male swans getting together, getting a female pregnant, then chacing her off and raising the chicks? That is not that humping. Wolves commit to each other for life but they feel no love?

Hard to say really. I think at this point you have to ask what is love. Which gets philisophical which I like. It's just something I don't approve of. Honestly I don't have anything against them and their choices are their choices.

Tiana, I'm trying to help you out here, But you're just sniping me down.

lol

lol Sorry, I really love that you are for gay marriage and everything. It was just the 'don't feel love' comment that broke my brain. It happens. If I get too stuck in a rut just yell at me.

{Tiana's Mom Here}

Hi guys, I'm Pepper, Tiana's mom. She is letting me use her account to toss in the anthropologists viewpoint. I am an anthropologist , so studying people, human cultures, human environments and the differences/similarities between different ideologies is what I do.

And boy, is it fun.

So, I just wanted to toss out a few things just because Tiana was telling me about this thread and about the ideas and concepts being tossed around, plus I love any thread where the phrase "I love philosophy" comes in.

There are a couple things I want to point out to everyone. For one, as someone (I don't know all the nicknames in here, bear with me) pointed out, what is love? That's actually a key question that really should be considered, pondered, and tossed about in everyone's minds before they can fairly get down to the nitty gritty in answering this question about gay rights and gay marriage. We are all enculturated; we are all "taught" what to believe by our friends, our parents, teachers, pop culture like movies and books; we are all blank slates when we're born that get imprinted with the ideas of right and wrong, morality and immorality and "normal" and "abnormal" by the society in which we grow up. That's just how culture works, among humans OR other animals (and yes, other animals have culture.)

Science has proven that love definitely exists both on a mental and on a physical level, by studying chemical levels in the body as well as brain wave patterns. It's accepted to be a strong attachment to something.

Since animals have definitely shown all the traits that humans do when it comes to love; compassion, altruism (helping someone with no expectation of reward), attachment, altered chemical levels, loyalty, and so on, I can say that animals scientifically do experience all the same things that humans do that we call "'love".

So, let's just go with animals DO know how to love in a chemical and physical sense. Emotions can't be proven, but we know they have the same reactions that CAN be measured that people do.

As Tiana pointed out, every single studied mammal species on the planet has shown homosexuality and dedication, and not a few of the avians as well. I'd say it's just as natural as heterosexuality. Some cultures on the planet have embraced and even idolised homosexuality, including many American Indian cultures where the "two spirits" (gays) were seen as holding *both* the magic of male and female and were therefore closer to the gods/great spirits/otherworld,and were often shamans. They had higher status in the group. There are still cultures today where homsexuality is accepted and even considered more normal than heterosexuality! That's hard to believe, but it's just how it is. Crazy, huh?

And the funny part is, every single culture (and religion!) thinks they're right and everyone else is wrong. We see that every day, here in the US.

I have to say, I have discussed gay rights and gay marriage on a multitude of forums; facebook, news websites, personal discussions, and political forums on moooooore than one memorable occasion, and I have got to say, this group has been the most relaxed, chill, accepted, and honest group I think I have *ever* seen. Agreeing or disagreeing, everyone was respectful and open-minded, and I am proud of all of you. Kudos to all!

Sorry to butt in, I'll get my grown-up butt out of here now.

That's actually really cool. As far as the relaxed thing goes I think it's because we've been on the forum for years and we just sorta know each other. I've recently started to like philosophy this year and find it interesting. I didn't know scientist have done studies like that. And I think it really does come done to how you were raised. My family is fairly religious and their parents even more so and I think that it really influences the no gay thing in the family. I also didn't know that about animals. Although I'd agree with A.J. about not comparing animals to humans or really comparing the way any two species lives, they're diffrent species for a reason.

Agreed, my family is very religious and perhaps that changes my opinion on the matter. I am not against gays in and of themselves, I have several gay friends and one of my cousins is gay (though his boyfriend really creeps me out), but I am against gay fornication. To me, it just seems very... wrong.

Miara sums up what I said...lol

Okay, so Tiana made me make my own account. Mean, mean girl.

Well, since we're discussing this philosophically, I want to ask a question:

How can you condemn homosexuality because it's "not natural" and then refuse any comparisons to the natural world and the other mammals (and we are all mammals) that live in nature? It seems to me that you are contradicting yourself. What do you think?

Secondly: I can understand and sympathise with thinking that some things are "very...wrong." I mean, I feel that there are a lot of wrong things in America today. For instance, I think it's very wrong that there are people who use transubstantiation to eat "the body of Christ". To my anthropologist brain, that's cannibalism; and is condemned (and illegal) in many places! I think it's very wrong when people try to convert other people to their religion, rather than believing in "live and let live and freedom of religion". I think it's very wrong when people use "your" when they mean "you're". Wait... that's a spelling nazi thing. Ignore that one...

I'm also curious as to your thoughts, Fearix, on not comparing species. Whether you look at it Biblically (creationism) or scientifically (evolution), you're right; they *are* different species for a reason. However, from a scientific standpoint, you can't find out what that reason is *without* comparing and comparing/contrasting. For instance, the reasons that tigers and lions are separate species is a matter of geographical location as well as the different environments in which they live. We figure out family trees by comparing and contrasting. It's vital to use it to answer questions. However, I do see your meaning.

-Pepper

PS: I am not trying to change anyone's views, I am simply asking you to think about your own views and clarify them!

Well then, There went this topic... lol

Yep...lol

That is kind of sad; it had the potential to be a really cool discussion.

Your mom argument is hard to respond too...

Let's get this going again.

I say it isn't natural by simply looking at the human body. A male is not built to be with another male, and a female is not meant to be with a female. Not if they expect the race to continue.

+1 to miara. I completly agree with that statement. My opinion is that it's not natural and obviosly wasnt meant to be. I have a question though. What are your guys opinion on lesbians ad they are generally looked upon better. I'm against it either way.